This Sex Toy Company Isn't Only Fighting The MTA — They're Taking On The Public's Understanding Of Pleasure, Too

Once the co-founders of the sex toy firm Dame filed a lawsuit against New York City’s transit corporation for refusing to run its subway ads on June 18, they weren’t expecting such a massive response — they just wanted to convince the MTA to reconsider their campaign, which they mentioned was resisted based on a “sexist policy.”


“I really think that this is a bit of a misunderstanding,” Alexandra Fine, who co-founded Dame alongside Janet Lieberman, told MTV News about the lawsuit. “I don't desire to be in a long prolonged MTA case.”


Yet, soon after filing the suit, that looks unlikely: MTA Chief External Affairs Officer Maxwell Young mentioned in a statement to MTV News that they plan to “vigorously defend this lawsuit,” adding that “the MTA is constitutionally entitled to draw reasonable content-based distinctions between different types of advertisements and to imagine its diverse customers.”


Fine told MTV News that segment of her is aware where the MTA is coming from, however just hopes they can meet in the middle. “I don't think the MTA means malice. I think they're just attempting to do right by New Yorkers and that if they would just meet with us... I hope we can meet each other and find a resolution that works for everybody and makes everybody thrive.”


MTV News caught up with Fine about why she and Lieberman ultimately determined to sue the MTA, what they wish to change in the sex toy industry, and why they plan to close the pleasure gap for everyone.


MTV News: I wanted to talk about the complaint that you wrote. I read a lot of lawsuits and legislation and your complaint was so, so easy to read. It was more like a story than a suit. How crucial it was for you for that complaint to be digestible and easy to understand?


Alexandra Fine: We knew that we wanted to post the complaint publicly and we expressed that to our lawyers. It feels like you're fighting two fights: There's the legal fights, however we also wanted to prepare ensure we were convincing lay people as well. However I’ve got to tell you, the lawyer who wrote the complaint is perfect. Soon after we spoke through all our grievances and I was preparing to read it, I blocked off two hours of time, I got some coffee, and was like, “I'm going to read a legal document.” And then it was a breeze to read. I can only take so much credit. There really are other astonishing humans who are involved.


MTV News: It certainly gets your point across: You think the MTA was wrong to mention no to your ads. Why is it essential for you to have ads placed in the subway to start with?


Fine: Advertisements are a crucial platform for entrepreneurs categorize in attempt to get their message and the value they're attempting to bring to the world to the world. It's the way you could allocate your distributing. So if it's going to be allowed for everybody, it's essential for us also, so people can know about us. Over 50% of females will use a vibrator. They are correlated to a higher excellent class of life and also sexual pleasure. They have a positive impact in the world. And if we can't tell people about them, then people don't know about them, and I think that that is denying access to pleasure for certain people. And that's problematic.


[Advertising is] something that we use in our society and I think there should be some regulations. I don't hope to feel aroused on the subway, nevertheless I think it's crucial that we're holding space to have public discourse about sex. People should know that sex is supposed to be safe, consensual, and pleasurable and that they're entitled to feel good.


MTV News: So it sounds like you group kind of understand where the MTA was coming from.


Fine: [Their decision] has nothing to do with the dialogue of our ads from what I can tell, based on my communication. It literally had to do with the fact that the items we sell are predominantly used for sexual pleasure. Their actual language was that we were a ‘sexually oriented business.’ I remember being like, 'my agency doesn't have a sexual orientation!' Plus it immediately made me feel Twilight Zone-y. Had they not been on the subway? It really threw me through a loop. So if they sent that to us, I [thought] ‘Maybe they just don't visualize it.’ And I'm writing them back to them saying, ‘Yes, nevertheless you guys have these other advertisements.’


MTV News: I know that you've encountered some advertisement blockades, however is this the opening time that you've taken legal action?


Fine: Yes. This is the initial time we've taken legal action…. It took [co-founder Janet Lieberman] and I a very long time to feel entitled to and and ready to put a legal case forward. Initially we felt very much like, we just desire to show the world alternatively opposed to harping on how it is, which is what this complaint feels like it's doing. However that was a foolish binary we were creating. If we wish to change the way the world values, invests, and knows the power of sex, we need to some days take legal action. We need to fight a little and also continue to shape the world by what feels more like mobile doing.


MTV News: Something I was thinking of Whenever I was reading this complaint, is how much thought must have gone into saying, no, this is my space.


Fine: Yeah. I would even argue that you as a consumer determine whether or not these products are sexual. They're certainly designed to be pleasurable, nevertheless we've done the statistics, and as soon as we asked people what their main reasons are [for using] one of our products, 40% of people mentioned to fall asleep. I remember we were floored. And I guess one could argue that our products aren't only sexually oriented, they could just be pleasure oriented. Which is probably what the MTA has a problem with: pleasure.


MTV News: This whole discussion really reminded me of the ways in which the pleasure gap is just so prevalent in our day-to-day lives. Is that something that, not just with this lawsuit although with your agency overall, y'all are working on closing?


Fine: We began this firm to close the pleasure gap. I think ladies never feel as entitled to pleasure as gentlemen. We want people besides heterosexual boys to feel entitled to have an orgasm once they have sex or to have pleasure nevertheless they define that. And [Lieberman] and I very much felt like there was this huge possibility in the space because we haven't as a society invested in female sexual pleasure. There really are several other women-founded firms that have popped up in the past five years. And I think that speaks to younger females demanding better equipment and products that are made safely and smartly for their needs.


MTV News: You said younger females, do your sex toys really appeal to millennials and Gen Z?


Fine: Not really. I would mention we don't sell as well to Gen Z as some of the other brands out there. Our products are excellent, rechargeable products. I would mention most people for their first vibrator going to purchase a battery-operated, $20 one. Eva is really designed for partner play. So I would mention most of the people who are purchasing Eva are actually in long-term monogamous relationships. Any time we were in the New York Times in 2016 our number one demographic online for the full month was 65+.


MTV News: Wow.


Fine: Wedded ladies are twice as likely to own a sex toy. It's a little like hot sauce. As you get older you require a little more hot sauce. You're not addicted to the hot sauce, you just like the hot sauce. You sort of want more hot sauce.


MTV News: So have you found any big changes in the way that people have perceived hot sauce since you began Dame?


Fine: Yes. It's been such an interesting five years, right? I feel some days While I talk about these products as reducing pain and not only increasing pleasure, people respond to them in a way that validates their needs more. There was something about me also that made some people be like, “I can't talk about sex and agency in the same sentence.” There was a tiny cohort of older males who really felt uneasy by me even more because they just don't understand how to talk about sex with it not being harassment. However then there was a lot more people who are like, “Oh my God, we need this. We need people who are attempting to invest in optimizing sex.”


All we're attempting to do is cultivate conversation, studies, and innovation that assists the us have more joyous, safe, pleasurable experiences and simultaneously minimize pain. I'm not instead of hedonism, yet that's not the kind of marketing we're attempting to lean into. This is really just about connecting. So several ladies are just not even connected to their bodies. So several females experience sex as something where they dissociate from their bodies and we aspire to bring people back to their bodies, feeling their pleasure, connecting more deeply with their partner and enjoying their lives more.


This interview has been edited for length.