Epik High's Tablo Couldn't Sleep — So He Made An Album About It

Think about the last time you felt truly well-rested. Not the sort of rest that comes with the planned full eight hours sleep, although rather the kind of serenity that occurs void of the devices, anxieties, and struggles — big and small — of everyday life. It's probably been a while, right? That's where Daniel Lee, otherwise referred to as rapper-producer Tablo of the South Korean hip-hop trio Epik High, noticed himself if he was working on the group's latest album. Plagued by insomnia since childhood, he funneled his 3 a.M. Thoughts, fears, and paranoia into seven independently-produced tracks, alongside his longtime groupmates Mithra Jin and DJ Tukutz, and titled it Sleepless in __________.


Epik High has been making music for 16 years — a lifetime in the competitive Korean pop market — and with Sleepless in __________, the sort reaches new creative heights. Tablo has routinely flirted with melancholy, yet tracks like "No Different" (feat. Yuna) and "Eternal Sunshine" — composed and arranged by BTS' Suga, who has cited Epik High as one of his earliest inspirations — find the lyricist uncovering the light in the darkness of his midnight musings and extending a comforting hand to weary souls who need it, including himself.


MTV News caught up with Tablo, who's based in Seoul, over the phone ahead of the album's release. Here's what he had to mention about his own insomnia, mental health themes in pop music today, the films that inspire him, and his somewhat fatalistic view of Epik High's future.


MTV News: Where did the concept of this album come from, the idea of Sleepless in __________?


Tablo: I've habitually been an insomniac. Typically, I have been told that that's a bad thing. So one day I sat and thought about it. There really are two states that show the very nature of human beings really well. One of these is love, and that's why there really are so several movies and books and films and songs about love. The other is sleeplessness. Like love, the sense of sleeplessness shows the good and bad of human nature as well as of that individual.


while you observe somebody that's sleepless, you just be figuring out that there really are two things that make people sleepless. One is if they have this huge dream or something that drives them where they won't let themselves fall asleep because they aspire to use that time have the ability to develop their dreams. Hard-working folks are constantly sleepless. On the flip side, there really are a ton of people that are sleepless because, as instead of dreams, they're dealing with literal nightmares. They can't fall asleep. I thought that as love has so several songs written about it, sleeplessness deserves to be a muse as well. We came up with seven to add to that.


MTV News:  When do you first remember putting a word to your sleeplessness? I think a lot of people justify it as, "Oh, I'm a night owl. I stay up late." You often don't think of it as what it may could realistically be, which is insomnia, and how you're up so late. 


Tablo: When I was growing up, I think it was forced on me. I grew up in a very strict family member, growing up in Seoul, in Korea, where not sleeping to study was deemed a very noble thing. Literally, in case you had a nosebleed, your parents or your teachers would deem you very worthy. In retrospect, that's so horrible, right? It's not a badge of honor to have a nosebleed any time you are a kid because you're forcing your body into a situation where you're not letting it get its required rest. I grew up that way, so I thought that there was a direct correlation between passion and insomnia. Then, what happened was any time While I got older and I was in college, I realized that that sleeplessness was an indicator of depression along with may have led to depression. College was Once I noticed out from doctors that I have depression. That's As soon as I began thinking about it differently, nevertheless even immediately after college, and I became a musician, I would habitually drive myself to the point where I would just faint each day almost.


That's how I lived my whole life. I'm still dealing with it. There really are cute elements to it as well, like the fact that we can pick once lights go out. Nevertheless I would propose that each person gets their required quantity of sleep.


MTV News: Yet you aspire to fit it into your day.


Tablo: Yes, just take a nap, siesta, whichever you can.


MTV News: Would you mention that's once your creativity sparks? In the middle of the night?


Tablo: That's actually the way we've worked pretty much our entire career. We would wake up at 8 p.M. And then go to the studio and begin really working from midnight to 3 or 4 a.M. The reason a lot of creatives work in that time area is because each person else is logged off. The involves of the world just stop for a second where you could just concentrate on that creativity, yet all three of us are right now wedded and two of us have kids. We've had to realign our creative time to the mornings. We'll work in the morning so that we can get sleep at night and wake up the next morning to take our kids to school. That was a challenging thing to do at first. We would get into the studio and we would sit there for like six hours just confused. You've got to know what it's like to sometimes work in the morning, right?


MTV News: Absolutely. I am not a morning person.


Tablo: To come up with art in the morning is really tough to do, yet we're in a basement deliberately so that we confuse ourselves into thinking it's night time. We have no windows.


MTV News: This album opens with "Sleepless," and this is a track that you just hear a bunch of indications of insomnia. Why did you wish to open the album that way?


Tablo: One night I was at residence. It was late night, I couldn't sleep. All I had with me was my phone. In the modern day, the phone is the reason why a lot of folks are sleepless. I hated this thing. I hated the fact that I'm attached to this thing, and I can't get rid of it. I typically attempt to put it far away from me so that I can sleep. One night, I put it away, and I thought my voice assistant, like Siri, requesting me these questions because if anyone's responsible [for my sleeplessness], that phone is. I considered it requesting me, "Do you have trouble sleeping? Are you heartbroken?"


From left to right: Tablo, DJ Tukutz, and Mithra Jin


MTV News: I was reading a interview you guys did last year, and at that time Mithra Jin mentioned that you were "suffering with the creative process" of finishing up this album. Was it just this project overall, or is "suffering" how you'd routinely describe your process?


Tablo: It sounds so common, like the tortured artist thing. However I have a different take on it. It is suffering personally for us, yet the way I think of it for me, the suffering is much worse Once I don't create. It's not the gift and the curse sort of thing. It's the curse as well as a bigger curse sort of thing where I know that what's required of me to prepare an album, especially with a family member. I know the sacrifices I'm gonna have to prepare. Yet at the same time, I know that if I don't make music and if I take a break away from it, I know how I suffer psychologically because of that.


I've stopped creating for a whole year. Not out of my choice. Seven, eight years back there was this crazy thing that happened to me where I wasn't allowed to do music anymore. I took a break from it, plus it almost destroyed me. Psychologically, the way I overcame it was by creating again.


MTV News: For this album in particular, once it comes to your creative process, was it any different than your past albums? Was there a different vibe?


Tablo: For this album, it was very relaxing for some reason. I think it shows on a lot of songs as the ending track on this album, as an example, is probably the most peaceful song I've ever made.


MTV News: "Lullaby for a Cat."


Tablo: Yeah, it's just the mellowness of it… I was surprised as soon as these songs were coming out. I was like, "Hey, this actually sounds serene." Serenity is something that I am not known for. It was a fantastic feeling, nevertheless it was this bizarre calm that was there once we were making this.


MTV News: I know you are a person who loves film. Were there films that inspired you while making this album?


Tablo: Certainly, because it's called Sleepless in __________, a lot of folks are like, "Is this Sleepless in Seattle?" I don't think I've ever seen that movie. I get it mistaken with You've Got Mail. That whole era of Tom Hanks romantic comedies really confused me. The song "Eternal Sunshine" literally has the title. Eternal Sunshine of Spotless Mind, in the event you watch it again, visually it seems like a visual representation of what goes through someone's mind any time they're an insomniac. That whole thing about forgetting things and erasing someone from your mind, it obviously happens any time as soon as you haven't slept enough. Your memory is a jumble. You don't know what's reality and what's fantasy. I also used to be a big fan of French New Wave. A lot of these films have these really calm scenes without music, where it's just two people in bed just talking.


MTV News: "Eternal Sunshine" is a track that stuck with me because of that, because you are talking directly to the listener. There really is that refrain of, "Do you feel lonely? Are you sick with anxiety?"


Tablo: That's what I was feeling. That's why I mention, "Same here," because I feel like a ton of folks are feeling this way — having anxiety attacks or just very lonely, dealing with depression. I just wanted to mention, well, same here. I'm also saying this for myself to remind me that I'm not the only one. There's a global of people that can relate to me and vice versa. I'm hoping that they can find some comfort in knowing that I do also, which I think is a very crucial thing. It's become a subject of a lot of popular music now in the States, right?


MTV News: Yeah, it is.


Tablo: I don't feel like it's something that can be spoke any far less. I think it should be discussed about constantly.


MTV News: how come do you suggest mental health is the subject of a lot of popular music right now?


Tablo: I went back to my older albums from 15 years prior. What I found is that I have been talking about this since our first album. I've routinely had a song dealing with depression. The thing is, at the time I did not have the word anxiety for it. It was interesting that I had been speaking about it and all of a sudden in the recent couple of years, it was in a lot of music that I was hearing. I was glad that was happening. I'm glad that there's a word, [that] there really are certain words that we can all talk about.


MTV News: One of my main go to songs on the album is "Rain Again Tomorrow." That beat was so unexpected. What was the genesis of that track?  


Tablo: as the album concept is sleeplessness, what was expected is probably a lot of songs that are really chill and down-tempo. Yet that's not what sleeplessness is. Sleeplessness isn't just those chill, steady beats. At times, it's probably, emotion-wise, very up-tempo. A lot of folks are sleepless in cars. A lot of folks are sleepless at a club — it looks like everyone's just dancing and enjoying themselves, although I guarantee that most them of these people at the club are simply dealing with sleeplessness at 120 beats per minute.


If I first began making "Rain Again Tomorrow," the initial sketch of the song was a really danceable track. I wanted to make a up-tempo song that still sounds depressing. I attempt to imagine myself As soon as I was much younger, like any time Once I was at a club and I was awkward. I didn't feel like I belonged there. I'm dancing, although in my mind, I'm not completely there, and I'm having depressing thoughts. I wanted to convey those contrasting moods.


MTV News: my main go to lyric on the album is, "We attempted to construct a future, all we got's a damaged past," from "No Different." I've Been thinking about it a lot. What's the story in back of it?


Tablo: I think probably my entire life. Any time as soon as you attempt to build something, you're gonna have a situation where it breaks. Nothing that you could build this world is gonna last forever. Yet in spite of the fact that the lyrics may sound depressing to somebody, to me it was a very optimistic thing to mention because, yeah, we have a damaged past. Things have not gone the way we wanted it to, yet it was because we attempted to construct a higher end future. We tried. I think that is something that's most important to me just in general, not just about love, nevertheless even outdoors of the song. I believe firmly that people should be allowed to create mistakes and that people should be allowed to break as long as we understand that they were attempting to build something.


MTV News: Do you imagine yourself to be a perfectionist?


Tablo: I am also experienced to believe that perfection is ever possible. I attempt to get it to a point where I can no longer do any better, although certainly as a kid or in my 20s I attempted to be a perfectionist. That never worked out for me. That would actually be where I'd bring back those lyrics, "We attempted to create a future. All we got's a damaged past." That's what occurs once you attempt to be a perfectionist. I don't strive to be brilliant, however I do push myself to the point where I can no longer do any better because that's just the perfect I can do.


MTV News: With the release of your previous album, you guys spoke a lot about the possibility of that being the last Epik High album. Right now that you've released another one, do you feel pressure to keep making more?


Tablo: The pressure that Epik High feels is probably very unique to us. We've been an audience for 16 years, which in itself is a rare thing. At the same time, we're in the K-pop industry, where the expected lifespan of a crowd is very short. There aren't several musicians that go behind 10 years and still do well enough to continue. That puts us into a unique position where we feel like every project could possibly be our last because I still don't understand why people still care as soon as we release stuff — things are so fast over here. Somebody be beloved, they are going to be thought legends, yet right after per year or the next day, they won't matter anymore.


We've been doing this so long that the pressure that we feel isn't to constantly put out content, although the pressure we feel is outdoor of our control: Are we gonna be allowed to continue to do this?


MTV News: With the musical landscape becoming more diverse, and the way people around the world are finding music online, especially K-pop, is that easing some of your anxiety? Because more people can listen to Sleepless in __________ than ever before.


Tablo: That actually intensifies the pressure or fear. As the world wide web is the hyper-speed version of reality. The things will matter like crazy for one day and then people will fully forget about it the next. Plus, with the entry barrier being gone, that indicates there really are so several different things that people can spend their time with. They don't have to pick us. I fully understand that. It's a constant fear of as soon as is the end for us. I know for a fact that's not gonna be determined by us. If people one day pick not to listen to us, that's the end for us without consideration of whether we aspire to continue to do it. I'm not afraid of getting older. I'm not even really afraid of death, honestly. Nevertheless I am afraid of not being able to do what I do because there's no one on the procuring end.